Melina from Brazil

In this episode Trevor has a super interesting chat with a Brazilian lady, Melina, who is an international law professor and researcher and has an excellent level of English. They speak about learning English in Brazil, the benefits of spending some time in an English speaking countryand challenges with pronunciation. As Melina is currently researching the effect of eating meat on climate change they have a chat about that too, with loads of useful vocabulary and top-notch expressions.

For classes or transcripts go to https://realexamenglish.com/

Music: Wholesome by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5050-wholesome
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Real Exam English podcast. In this episode I have a super interesting chat with a Brazilian lady, Melina, who is an international law professor and researcher and has an excellent level of English. We speak about learning English in Brazil, the benefits of spending some time in an English speaking countryand challenges with pronunciation. As Melina is currently researching the effect of eating meat on climate change we have a chat about that too, with loads of useful vocabulary and top-notch expressions.

It´s a bit of a long episode, so let´s get going with the questions. Firstly, I ask Melina about her experience learning English in school in Brazil.

Yeah. Well, they teach English in Brazilian schools, but it's not good. So you're not gonna learn to speak English if you just go to regular schools. Well, my parents, obviously, they thought it was important that I would learn English. So when I was, I think 11 years old, they enrolled me. In Brazil, there's like many, many, many courses, English courses all over the country. So it's very easy if you want to get English classes. And then when I was 11 then they enrolled me in one of those courses. And then I think I did it until I was 16, so maybe 5-6 years studying English. But the truth is I didn't learn English. I don't know, I don't think I was mature enough. I found the classes like really boring. I couldn't. I  don't know. After six years of learning English, maybe I was level, A2. I swear to you. I didn't learn. And then when I was in law school. So during law school, I think I was 20-21 maybe. I just thought that I would really need it when I graduated in my professional life. So then I decided to learn and I think that's the, that's a big thing to have in mind when you want to effectively learn something then there's a chance, a bigger chance that you're actually gonna get it. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. And then I enrolled myself in one of those courses that…a different one. First one was British English. The second one was American English. But there's nothing to do with that. It's just the method. The method was different as well, but I think that the big difference is that I really wanted to learn when I was 20, 21 and then by the end of two years maybe I was like speaking fluently and yeah, so six years, nothing and then two years I could say that I was fluent in English because then and I know that because there's one thing that is when you're learning a language, I think the most frightening thing for someone who's learning and it's not their native language, it's to talk on the phone. 

Yeah, 

It is. It just wants to avoid it, right. So I was going to move to the US to live there for three months and a half like an exchange program on my vacations, like law school vacation. I would go there. It's called work experience. And then I think I did maybe three job interviews over the phone and I could do it. So that's when I just realized, yeah, I can speak English.

Yeah, cuz that's like that's the most difficult thing really speaking on the phone, right? Because you don't even have a face to be able to get some body language from them.

Exactly. And the mouth, you see the the person like speaking this is this, I don't know helps a lot. And yeah, that's it. So I learned English in Brazil, but when I decided to, when I was determined to. Before that I took courses, but it was kind of useless.

Really interesting that about the importance of the motivation to learn. I think this is so relatable. I think all of us on our quests to learn another language see more improvements when we are determined to learn. 

You might have noticed that Melina uses the word like a lot. This is very common in the US, and as she mentioned she spent a few months there when she was younger. Firstly, she said there´s, like, many many many courses in Brazil. So like is often used with hyperbole, where you are exaggerating a bit. For example, there’s like a million different kinds of phones you can buy. In a similar way like can be used to emphasize an adjective, as in her second example, I found the classes to be like really boring or I was like so happy.  She also uses like in a more conventional way saying she went to live in the US for 3 months and half, like an exchange program. Meaning as in an exchange program/or something like an exchange program. Ok, so a few different uses of like here, and there are like, many many more too, like. 

Just a little correction to when she said three months and a half, this should be three and a half months. This is the same for hours and minutes too and any unit of measurement and it´s quite a common error. If it´s one hour, or one kilometre, or whatever then it´s ok to say an hour and a half or a kilometre and a half but for anything more than one then you need to say two and a half hours or three and a half kilometres, not three kilometres and a half. It’s not a big error at all, it just sounds a little bit clunky.

Something I really liked in the answer was the expression the truth is, the truth is I didn´t learn English. This is a great expression for admitting something you feel a bit guilty or embarrassed about. Like, I’m not really into travelling. The truth is, I´ve never even left my city. 

Another really cool expression was I swear to you. She said after 6 years of learning English my level was A2, I swear to you. Meaning honestly, or I promise. You often also here people saying I swear to god. Like, I swear to god that was the hardest exam I´ve ever done. Or if you want to be really convincing you can swear on your mother’s life. As in, I didn´t eat the last cookie, I swear on my mother’s life. Alright, a few nice options there, depending on how ok you are with blasphemy and possibly cursing your mother’s life!

Alright, so next I ask Melina about her job in international law and whether she uses English in it. 

Yeah. Yes, I do. Actually. Uh. Originally I'm an international law professor, so to teach international law in Brazil, I did not use English. But I'm not only a professor, I'm also a researcher like academic researcher and to research, you're always gonna need English. It doesn't matter the field, because most relevant research papers they are probably in English, if not all of them. Maybe 90% of them. So it really doesn't matter if you you're going to be an academic. It can be biology really doesn't matter. Engineering. You're gonna need it. To read, to understand and then if you want to publish like in highly ranked journals, it's going to be in English, so you're going to have to be able to write in English as well, and then I also applied for international jobs. That's why I'm in Spain right now. And then before I was in the Netherlands, so I worked at the International Criminal Court, I would have never got a job there if I didn't speak English. So English and French are the crucial languages. I think I can say that, yeah. And then if you want to work like in the international field, arena, you're gonna need English. And then now I work for an NGO as a consultant and every time, because it's from East Timor, so like half of the jobs are in English. When the clients are you and agencies and I don't know you and women, you and DP and when it's the government, the local government and the the jobs are in Portuguese. But when it's in English. Usually I do it because my level of English is good. So when I have like the draft report and, yeah, research is like my daily life, so I always do it for that. But then I have to draft reports as well. When I was at the ICC, I had to draft like legal texts. And yeah, in academia right now I'm researching a lot about climate change and livestock and the Amazon and yeah. So a lot of this is done in English so I use it a lot. 

Right. OK. We hear a lot about the Amazon and deforestation. 

Yeah.

What is the effect of that deforestation?

Well it's bad. But not only the deforestation. I think everything that we humans are doing. We are going to a place that's probably not gonna be good. We're probably gonna reach a irreversible point that we cannot go back and that's frightening. And of course, when we burned. But when we burn tropical forests or rainforests, then they do not observe, absorb CO2 anymore and you have like the smoke, so it's like double the effect because you release the smoke and then they don’t absorb CO2 anymore. So we really need those sinks, CO2 sinks and yeah but like.

I guess on top of that as well, I guess on top of that, it's what they are replacing the fires with. You know, I guess it's often with cattle ranches, which in turn are emitting a lot of methane, etcetera.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And yeah, and plantations as well that a lot….very often they are destined to feed the herd, the cattle and not to feed us. So that that that's a problem because it's not sustainable. So we should probably reduce the amount of meat we eat. And also food waste, you know that food waste if food waste was a country, it would be the third largest emitter, CO2 emitter in the world.

Wow. That's incredible.

So yeah, the the whole food system, it's really not sustainable. So when we think about livestock, meat, animal source foods and food waste. So we really I think we're going to have to rethink that really quickly if we don't do that like yesterday, we're gonna be in trouble, like serious trouble.

Yeah. And is food waste the problem of the Western world, so to speak or the first world or.

No, I think it's a general problem. I don't have like the statistics for each country, but I think food waste is a big problem in most countries, and when it comes to eating meat, it's not only a western problem, but because a lot of developing countries they also consume a lot of meat, depending on the country of course. But yeah, there are like many papers showing that Western developed countries, they eat way more than they should when it comes to meat, so we should reduce maybe 90%. I know it's a lot, but.

Yeah, so that's something practical that individuals can do, I guess, right? They can cut down on their meat consumption.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that when it comes to climate action and we think about individuals, of course we can exchange cars for public transportation. That would help too. But when we think about the food system, it's maybe where we can do the most. Because, yeah, what we eat, just it's not sustainable and also food waste. I think these two things are the things that we can do that will help the most individually, I mean.

Wow, some fascinating stuff there. In the first answer we heard a mixed conditional, I would have never got a job there if I didn't speak English. So the first part of this relates to the past, I would have never got a job there, so this is similar to a third conditional. Then the second part of it relates to the present, as well as the past, if I didn´t speak English. So this is similar to a second conditional, using the past simple, if I didn´t speak English. Ok so this is some top-level grammar usage here, if you can use this in an exam situation the examiner will be very impressed.

We then had loads of useful environmental vocabulary. She mentioned about C02 emissions, which is the release of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, then that the rainforests absorb C02 which is removing it from the atmosphere, and lastly she mentioned C02 sinks which are processes or regions that absorb a lot of C02, like the rainforest, or the ocean, for example. 

We also had a whole bunch of vocabulary about cows. She never actually used the word cows, right. She mentioned cattle which are cows that are kept for their milk and meat, she also used the word livestock which refers to all animals and birds that are kept on farms, including sheep and chickens too. She used the word herd, H.E.R.D, which is the collective noun for some groups of animals, a herd of cows, a herd of elephants, etc. Cattle ranches also came up, they are these huge farms of animals that are found in the Americas. She talked about meat, animal source foods, food waste, sustainability, loads and loads of super useful language, for a super hot topic. 

Ok so next I ask Melina if spending time in the US was beneficial for her English.

Yeah, for sure. And I think that it really depends on your level, but it's always going to be beneficial. There's no way it's not going to be beneficial. But uh, since when I got there, I already like spoke fluently English. Yeah, I just think I don't know. I thought it was really good to. Get local expressions and the way people actually speak, because when we're learning, sometimes it's not that it is formal, but it is a way that people normally don't speak. So yeah, that, that's…I think this was like the best thing for me because already people would say ohh you speak very well. Oh thank you. But you can always learn. There's no way you're not gonna learn. It's always gonna be good for you and for your English.

And then there's something because then later, because I went to the US in 2004/5. And and then in 2010, years later, I lived for six months in London and then the same thing. But since I I…. Because in the US I was like, dealing with people on a daily basis with American people and my job, I used to work in a child daycare and I was just speaking English like every day, all day long. And when I went to London, it was for my PhD. And I would spend a lot of time like in the library researching and writing and not really talking to people all day long. So I don't know, I think that when I went to US I improved more my English. Let's say I don't know. Then when I was in London because I didn't get to be with people all the time.

Yeah, you just had a lot more interactions. That's something that's, that happens a lot, really like when people have a good level of English, like you when you go to a new country, it really it's about learning those local expressions because it's even as an English speaker, I know when I went to America the first time I was saying things and people didn't understand me because of these different vocabulary I was saying, oh, that's grand, which means that's fine. But in America, no one, no one understands what grand means in in that way. Right. So you have to adapt your language and then you start replacing it with the more local phrases and that's just what's necessary. And I think at a high level that's the only thing really left to learn right is like the local, the local expressions.

Yeah, I think I'll always have things to learn, and maybe you're gonna ask about the challenges and one challenge I think I'll have forever is with prepositions. All that I mean, of course, I know the basic ones, but every now and then I oh, my God, what do I use here? Because I really find it like a hard thing to. So I'm always gonna be learning not only new vocabulary and expressions. And I don't know prepositions, I'll just have the, I have the impression that I'll always make mistakes.

Yeah, I suppose there's very few rules with prepositions, right? Like so they're a hard thing to remember always, that's a big challenge. OK, so prepositions are a challenge. What about pronunciation? Any issues with that, or is that Kind of okay?

Pronunciation. Well, I just learned that I I don't know what happened to me. But I think that in English I  don't find it very challenging. It was always. It's not that it's easy, but I I kind of. And it's…is the word phonetics. Does that exist? Sorry, from yeah of English. I don't know. It doesn't sound difficult for me to replicate and then to just say the words. And it's funny because I'm from Brazil and I speak Portuguese and I find it really hard for example, in Spanish. So I don't know if there's something in our brains that maybe it works better with some languages and worse with other languages. I don't know, but I think the pronunciation I  never had like a really hard time with that. Of course, sometimes if you have like the…. I have specific words that I cannot say because I… and I know the meaning. I use them,  and when I say them I just try to replace because I find it difficult to say, but it's for example.

Go on, spill the beans. What are they?

I can tell you this word.

Hierarchy. 

Super hard right hierarchy.

This, this, this one I find it really hard.

Yeah, it's a double R I think.

I mean, it's high, high, high work, whatever.

Hierarchy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I find that one's really hard. So. OK, I'm going to have few words that maybe they're going to be difficult for me to pronounce, but overall, I don't have. I don't find it a challenge. I think I can, I can speak like good English in terms of pronunciation. I think maybe you can say no you're wrong.

No, no, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's super. 

Great answers there. We all have some words that we struggle to get out correctly, hierarchy is one that actually features often in lists of the hardest to pronounce words so no shame in not being able to pronounce it right.

We had a lovely example of how to use a mix of past tenses in the same passage. She said I used to work in a child daycare and I was speaking English every day, all day long. And when I went to London, it was for my PhD. And I would spend a lot of time in the library. So she had used to to talk about a past habit, then the past continuous I was speaking English every day, then past simple, when I went to London, it was for my Phd and then to talk about habits again I would spend a lot of time. This is exactly what we talked about in the last episode, showing a range of verb tenses like this, it makes it so much more interesting.

One thing that wasn’t quite right was the placement of adverbs, she said I spoke fluently English and I improved more my English. So when we have an object after a verb, like English comes after I spoke, I spoke English, then the adverb has to go after the object. So it should be I spoke English fluently instead of I spoke fluently English, and I improved my English more, rather than I improved more my English. Again it´s only a small error, and doesn’t affect communication at all, but worth pointing out as a lot of people make mistakes putting adverbs in the right place.

A nice idiom popped up at the end there when she mentioned she had difficulties pronouncing some words, I said “spill the beans”, meaning tell me your secret, or disclose the information.  Another example would be “she told him to confess to the police or she would spill the beans about his crimes” or it was supposed to be a surprise party but John spilt the beans and the surprise was ruined. 

Ok lastly I ask Melina about her favourite word or expression…

Well, there's one that I find it curious and funny because we don't have something similar in Brazil and I don't know. I find it funny, which is hold my beer.

OK can you tell the context there of when people use that?

Well, I actually I I first I I because then I realized it could have two meanings. But at first I thought it would serve just to like I can top that. Like, hold my beer. But then I realized it could be also in a in a sense that I'm doing something reckless or and then just hold my beer and I don't know but I just find it funny because you have an expression for something very specific that we don't have in Brazil. And I don't use it very often, but I just like it.

Nice, kind of an unusual one there. So as she said hold my beer can have two meanings. One is when you try to do something better than someone else has just done it. Like your friend has just shot a basketball shot from 5 metres and you wanna try to do it from 6 metres, you say to your friends hold my beer, meaning look at this, check this out. The second meaning, as Melina explained is when you are going to do something reckless, or just plain stupid, like I dunno, jumping off a roof into a swimming pool, or putting a rocket on the back of your bicycle, you’ll say to your friends hold my beer. You see this a lot in memes on social media. By the way, be careful with the pronunciation of this word, memes, I hear a lot of Spanish speakers saying memes, ok it´s not memes, it’s memes. 

Ok cool idiom there, not sure how often you’ll use it, I guess it’s good for all of the daredevils and adrenalin junkies out there.

Ok guys, that’s all for today. It was great to hear the experience of someone who has gone to live in other countries and the different ways that that can be beneficial. It was also fantastic to hear out some of the top-level English Melina used, she really has mastered the language and is a superb communicator so thanks to Melina for taking the time to talk, and thank you all very much for listening.

Remember you can get the transcripts for this and all of the episodes on the Real Exam English website, realexamenglish.com. And you can get details of classes with me there too.

Thanks again,

Trevor